knew you’d be here tonite
it’s been awhile since we’ve had a good old fashioned raymi rant in these parts so here i go. this one is entitled HOW I FEEL ABOUT TAKEN MEN GOING TO STRIP CLUBS. yes, nothing bad can come of this ha.
so it’s been on my mind since we watched the hangover (if you haven’t seen it i’m not really going to give any spoilers away, i mean, they go to vegas so one can only assume strippers are involved) and great film can’t wait to see it again. i actually started formulating this when the trailer first hit, more like a don’t even CONSIDER a vegas boys weekend ever guy to fil (oh boohoo poor fil here’s a preemptive fuck you to all the guys just in case) and that was it. then we watched the movie and afterward i said you know, here’s my two cents, firstly, strip clubs are not a right of passage before marriage. i do not get why they are synonymous with bachelor parties aside from the pervert drunk louse friends (every guy has one of those friends and we have our eye on you buster) who want a gander at the expense of their buddy’s life “about to be over” therefore he NEEDS to have the ass of another woman in his face one last time before the fun stops. sorry i don’t plan on being miserable for the rest of my life either but this negative mindset placed onto women at the start of marriage is the dude’s fault, a stereotype that gains more and more clout over time until it becomes true.
here’s the thing, if you are going to get wasted and party with strippers then i am going to get wasted and strip for men. i’m going to perv out all over them. if you are going to celebrate with loose women then i will be loose with men.
how come it’s ok for men to go out with the boys to the club while women stay at home playing penis drinking games hoovering wine then some cheesy dude stripper who can’t even be considered human comes in bobbling his banana hammock and that’s somehow even? no offense to those bachelorette parties, i’m just trying to make a point here and that point is jealousy.
do i feel jealous visualizing my boyfriend staring up at naked chicks with perfect bodies? um i have a pulse, so, yes. women who allow their men to go out to strip clubs and appear as if they do not care about it are fucking liars. or worse, they actually no longer care about their men. that’s heartbreaking to me. you should feel flattered by my jealousy actually cos the moment i stop making a fuss that means i am OVER YOU. like one time i let a girlfriend of mine blow an ex bf right in front of me, i let that same chick do it to two different guys on separate occasions actually, and i could see in both the guy’s stupid faces how lucky they felt and happy and were completely elated WOW hit the fucking lottery here this must mean something. yes it does mean something and that being i’m beyond over you and this is how i’m letting you down easy with a beej from my whore friend. pretty generous if you ask me. (it’s a sneaky dirty trick you can bring up later on when the guy is sobbing and saying nasty desperate things you just passive aggressively remind him that he got blown by your friend in front of you so who’s the one who cares about whom now?)
here is an article i found on jezebel earlier this week that reminded me of all this, it’s their take on a piece written on that AskMen site 5 Lies All Women Tell written by Madeline Murphy and originally published two years ago then revived for some reason again (that’s rather telling) anyway read it all but specifically this part stood out for me:
2. “I don’t mind if you go to strip clubs with the boys.” This is a lie that women tell to make themselves seem “less pathetically needy.” This is another no-win situation for women. Either they are liars and hate their boyfriends for having a little harmless fun the boys (by objectifying naked strangers) or… well, if you aren’t needy and insecure, than I guess you are not a real women. Murphy instructs men to handle this situation by not going to strip clubs; “You’re probably better off just not going. Ask yourself: Are two hours of bare booty worth weeks, even months, of bitchy comments?”
Winner: Tie. Men are deprived of the privileged of spending a “boy’s night out” ogling naked women, but women are insecure harpies bent on securing their boyfriend’s unhappiness.
and here are my replies to this:
raymi
07/08/09
if men should be allowed to go hang with strippers then women should be allowed to hang with strange men and be slutty with them while doing it. fair is fair.
TurtleSpeak
07/08/09
@raymi: Like, for every lap dance he receives, she gives one to a random dude at a bar? Sounds fair to me, too.
raymi
07/08/09
@TurtleSpeak: exactly. if your man is gonna get blasted with sluts then i’m gonna be slutty and get blasted with men.
chancentrate
07/09/09
@raymi: weird logic – he gets girls all over him, and yet you don’t want guys all over you, you want to be all over guys…not exactly like for like.
raymi
07/09/09
@chancentrate: it makes a point – if you are going to stray from me, then i am going to stray from you. how is that NOT like for like? the visual of that is what would get to him.
deep down, well not even all that deep down, i want to be a stripper, but i can’t because girls like me know you only become a stripper as a last resort and various other stigmas. plenty of women want to be strippers. how many annoying feminist-driven debates have you been privy to regarding stripping? ugh nevermind spare me (it’s empowering raaaaah own your sexuality zzzz don’t be an object BE a subject what?!) all the music videos we love to get hard to how close to simulated sex are they? how come super famous entertainers (actresses, singers) can do it and get away with it but one person in your circle finds out and you get nothing but shit for it? why are other women allowed to strip, and essentially we and anyone we know, aren’t?
i suppose it’s the narcissist in me that craves that sort of attention and there is no feminist justification (excuse) behind it at all, it is purely animal at base, simple. men want to look and women want to be that package they look at. i want MY man to look AT ME in that way and if he walks out the door to look at another woman in that way, i see that as a failure.
why has showing my nipples (pretty tame if you ask me) garnered so much flack that it’s not even worth it anymore? why has that put me in the only popular because shows nudity category? guess the types who peg me as that btw: OTHER WOMEN and geeky men who get 5 visitors to their blogs a day. not going to bother with the other women thing as there’s a wack load of tiresome reasons i can’t be bothered with right now. as for the geeky, sorry fine, ordinary man, who wants to jerk off to porn on the internet to a nameless faceless starlet, why does it incense you so much to find out a woman has a personality behind those nipples? you are irritating and your conclusions are lazy. F.
a little off topic there sorry.
i almost forgot one of the points of this entire thing ha – so in the hangover one of the guys (total doormat controlled by bitch wife) finally gives it to her regarding where he’d been that weekend (lied) and to make us champion him more this woman is painted in an all out totally unlikable fashion. as a woman it plays on your emotions and makes you identify with her a little bit to the point where you feel like a total psycho, if you have any issues with control, being in control or losing control, i dunno, it’s pretty hypocritical cos the guys go on a complete tear yet she is a monster. anyway, when he finally gets it out that they were in vegas with strippers she flips and asks WHY and he states BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT MEN DO. he might have said guys. no matter. back to my point, or questions rather, if that is what guys do, then as women, what do we get to do that’s of equal magnitude cos all i can think of is BE strippers and have our asses spanked by strange men. don’t like picturing that dudes? THEN DON’T GO TO THE FUCKING STRIP CLUB!
thoughts?
also, i know of a strip club (pure gold) in the burbs that will not allow women in unless they are accompanied by a male and the reason for this is because women kept storming the door causing scenes and embarrassing the (wealthy established) clientele, dragging their men out. that is absurd. what is this the fucking flintstones and pure gold, the lodge? how helpless, neglected, and alone those women must feel.
ps. happy face sticker is still up. when did i stick it there, i think around my birthday so late march.
check out these tights!
100% agree with you on this one. I am getting married in August and have been trying to help my fiance’s (hate the term) bestman in England throw something together here in Toronto, the first rule was no strip clubs. He had never even been to one so there was no further debate. End story, I think they are going on a charter boat salmon fishing…
that sounds good. i forgot to mention that stag ‘n does/jack ‘n jills are for couples who don’t trust each other hahaa.
Quite a rant there!
As a guy, I can say with all honestly, for my bachelor party I wouldn’t want it to be at the rippers for the same reasons you mention above in regards to my girlfriend; it would be unsettling to have the roles reversed. But also, I love hanging out with my buds. I’d rather shoot the shit with them, have some beers & sharing laughs. I’ve seen some creative ideas for parties that don’t include strip clubs and they’ve been some of the best times I’ve had.
I’m not sure if you’ve touched on this but what is your opinion when it’s out of the guy’s hands? Imagine the film, but instead he didn’t hide it from his girlfriend. Luckily I haven’t been in that situation before, but on one side, I do want to support my friend and if this is what’s happening, I don’t want to be the one to shit all over it. On the other hand, my girlfriend is of the same mindset as you. I’d undoubtedly not attend that portion of it at least for my girlfriend, but I can’t help but think that if you take the atmosphere out of it, he just wanted me to come and have some drinks. It’s just unfortunate that someone else planned it to be this way.
Great post
My issue on strip clubs is that it is just as frustrating as window shopping but worse because you still leave with your wallet empty. I have been on occasion to strip clubs with guy friends and every time I leave I’m all horned up with no where to release. All that sexual energy in there!
I too kinda think the stripper passage rite is a bit lamo. One picks to GET married and be with ONE woman for the rest of their lives. If you needed a one time last time fling to see if this is the life you wanna lead.. MAYBE you should have thought about figuring that shit out BEFORE you bought the ring and proposed. Just saying!
But i like your direction regarding stagette party! One time in Montreal I was in The Super Sexe strip club and at one of the stages was a bunch of girls on a stagette. The bride to be ended up getting dragged up on stage by 2 strippers… and they bascially half stripped her and made her do things – get on hands and knees while one stripper rode her around whipping her bottom with a riding whip, encouraged her to get on the stripper pole and dance… made her stand bending forward over back of a chair while they paddled her lightly.. etc..etc.. The bride to be was fairly drunk and at first was very timid and shy but the alcohol soon came over her and she was down right getting into it!
So maybe for your bachelorette party YOU should get to try it out.. a ONE time deal… and blame it on the booze and your LAST night of freedom.
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I agree 100 percent! Also we should call the human rights tribunal and complain that we are being discriminated against on the basis of gender at Pure Gold. What about the poor lesbians?
awesome post, lots of stuff in there. i especially liked the bit about how you want to be the sexy thing that your man ogles, and maybe other men as well. there’s some contradiction though in saying that you’d like to be a stripper but can’t because of the stigma attached to it, but then you also call strippers ‘loose women’ and sluts. that’s basically the stigma that’s attached to it. i have a friend in vancouver who i met through blogging who has been a stripper for a long time and loves it. she’s an intelligent woman with at least one degree, amazing skills in all kinds of things, she doesn’t do drugs and isn’t sleazy, and really cares about her friends and wouldn’t ever try to steal their men away or anything like that. in short, she’s a super cool lady, like you. and she likes stripping. she’s working hard to make it not so taboo and to get ordinary women to get out of their boxes a little bit and try out ‘the art of seduction’ in women-only workshops so they can take those skills into the bedroom with their own men (which i think is probably way more tantalizing to most men in relationships than watching some stranger do it, after all, this is the woman they want and what’s sexier than having her try and seduce him? it’s a no brainer).
i think you’re right about there being a lot of stigma around stripping or even just being a sexy and seductive woman. like the whole thing with you having some nudity on your blog. people are really uptight about that and they impose their uptightness on everyone else. i’d kind of like to say that it’d help if people just got in touch with their own sexiness so they didn’t feel so threatened by other sexy people, but obviously that’s not all of it.
um yeah, i have more to say but have to go! so yeah. inconclusive.
Fuck yeah dude, I hate having to MATCH whatever annoying shit men do like we don’t enjoy the same things ok? Another good point about the woman in the hangover is that I totally was watching Mark to see if he thought I was “like that” or something and it made me feel crazy, absolutely. Last thing can we just fuckin drop male (straight) strippers? they’re such greaseballs, why do they exist? who wants to look at that holy shit let it die already!
phil – nothing is ever out of a guy’s hands, that’s a cop-out “oh i didn’t know” as if. going along with the crowd is not an excuse, unacceptable. so suffer the consequences, you blew it before you were even married.
amy – i’ve had plenty of stripper experiences and the overwhelming conclusion was, that wasn’t all that fun. i have witnessed some men (friends of mine) turn into sexist inappropriate demeaning pricks, ridiculing and judging each stripper (which is real rich to me considering how disgusting the dude’s appearances are) and then they get aggressive, crude and abrasive from their sexual frustration and booze, not cool at all i have gotten on stage with a fiver in my mouth feeling like i need to one-up everyone and that’s stupid. not to mention how depressing the entire scene can get if you look into it deeper. not top mention going home feeling dumpy and plain. FUN!
Definitely agree with you on this one! I love the theory that if they go to strippers, well we should go and strip FOR other men to drool over us and slut it up hardcore! What are your thoughts on bachlorettes going to Vegas?
katyp – i was generalizing in that forum and certainly not all strippers are sluts or loose. i left that hastily in that forum w/o thinking. however, i have encountered MANY slutty strippers so mainly was speaking from personal experience. i was being extreme about it to make a point to create a visual of me being slutty (just a term) to put the jealousy meter over the edge.
i’m trying to avoid a hugely ethical feminist debate here basically.
lainy – i think it just sounds like expensive trouble and why not do something more original and fun?
Strip joints are depressing, plain and simple. It can be mildly entertaining when you go with a female friend who wants to see what it’s all about but really…. a dank little hole filled with sweaty greaseball men hiding in the dark ogling women they’d never have the courage to speak to on the street? Pretty sad.
I love seeing women naked, it’s just a lot more fun at home.
I do know a few strippers though who get off on the power they have over men when they dance. I can kind of see that but still….
i think it has to be illegal for a strip club to now allow women in as a general rule.
oops, NOT allow.
the rule was you have to have a male escorting you so like, hire a cab and drag the driver in haha.
I was talking about being an attendee to the party, not the bachelor himself. I agree, the “I didn’t know” is a cop-out.
Dan, you reminded me about another reason why I’ve never been a fan of the strip clubs: The ‘regulars’. The ones who are shouting, moaning or grunting at the dancers. My one memorable time at a strip club was sitting around a table, not really watching the girls, but discussing the song choices. Thought I’d share.
the guys who sit like they are secret agents all polite and reserved disassociating from their surroundings are pretty funny. oh! am i actually at a strip club well whaddyaknow?
Wow, couldn’t have said it better myself! Besides, why pay for a slutty girl to bump and grind on them when they can get that at home for FREE?! My friend had a bachelor party where they brought in a stripper to somebody’s place. He told me his wife probably would’ve called off the wedding entirely, had she found out about the “shenanigans” that took place at said party. I can’t even imagine the kind of shit that went down…Actually, I probably can. =P
I think it’s a great proposal. Make each other jealous and then take that energy into the bedroom and have great jealous make-up sex. Win-win.
Problem for me is, I don’t know how jealous I would get since I consider it all fantasy. Do you get upset when your man watches porn without you? It’s all of a piece to me.
eh… i can kind of see your point, but i dont think him going to a strip club and you stripping would be an eye for an eye scenario. In terms of him going to see naked ladies pissing you off, and you being the naked lady in front of men pissing him off, i get that, but the situation of being the stripper vs the stripee, its not exactly the same.
As the “stripee” you are an observer (lap dances excluded i guess) you are there to watch, and most guys realize that the dancer isnt into you, i guess this is where i get confused as to how you believe him looking at a naked girl, is the same as you being naked and having guys “slap your ass”, him looking at a naked girl is like you looking at a naked guy, that is the tit for tat in this, you being the girl the guys are looking at, would be like him being the stripper at a place and having girls wank him as he walks around naked.
of course this can all be avoided by both parties staying out of those places, how a strip club became the go to place for bachelor parties is beyond me, maybe it started with burlesque clubs, and just went from there?
the idea that a guy has to have one big hurrah before marriage does not bode well for their relationship in my eyes, the wedding should be the hurrah, it is a privilege, someone is giving themselves to you, and you to them, supposedly for eternity.
i think when i get married my bachelor party will be a pre-honeymoon honeymoon, travel somewhere with her, fuck like rabbits, enjoy a little vacation before the wedding kerfuffle, then get married, and have another honeymoon bang-fest to celebrate the privilege of loving someone so completely that you both dedicate your lives to one another.
to me atleast, that sounds alot better than seeing a naked girl i dont give a shit about in a shitty place with a bunch of shitheads.
long comment is long.
on the idea of strippers not being accepted in society, i kind of get it, theres a stigma associated with those places, alot of times they are seedy and the girls / owners are into things that society just doesnt accept. I guess girls not accepting girls who strip are mainly insecure, to be a successful dancer you have to be good looking, a talented dancer, and you have to be sexy, while most girls dont care about how well they can dance, its in alot of girls minds that they arent that sexy and alot of girls have body issues.
Of course i grew up catholic so i dont even get naked at the gym, i arrive in gym clothes, i leave in sweaty gym clothes, and me and my shame both have a nice shower in the privacy of my own home.
gah, still a long comment, i apologize.
on the subject of you baring your nipples, ive actually thought about this once i saw your nipples on here, i came upon your website from daryn jones’ twitter, he replied to you and i saw your page that way, and thus your website. to me it was nipple free, you were a cool and interesting person, and ive been reading your site since then, then i saw the nipples, and i didnt think “oh, she only shows boobs to get views” my immediate reaction was “woah, nipples, ok” and instead of reading your blog to see how much clothing you would remove, im reading as an interested person, because you are interesting, it was kind of nice to get the “ok, thats what she looks like naked” thing out of the way, i guess alot of guys cant get past that, and all they want to see are more boobs.
or as you said, jealous females cant get past that, either way, you cant please everyone, and maybe the females that dislike your more risque pictures are jealous, either that they wouldnt dare show their body in such a way, or that they dont have the guts to put themselves out there like that.
eh, im done now, christ that is a long comment.
scott – how can you consider something fantasy if it actually took place?
another thing that irks me about this is one, phil is a babe and to be stereotypical, some strippers are on the prowl for men to “save” them from their world, then they see phil, then i lose my shit. case closed.
jjones – woah longest comment yet. to me it does even the playing field that i should get to perform stripteases for men, because this is how I feel about it, this is my un/reality here, if you will. i feel jealousy from my man ogling another woman so the manner in which i will even it up is to make a point of being ogled by other men, be it by stripping or just flirting in a bar, taking off all my clothes. the ante isn’t being upped at all, it just feels that way cos once the tables are turned and only then, do you see how it makes us feel. two can play at this game basically. i feel going to the strip club is disrespectful to your signif. other and it’s not “just fun” with “the boys” because it hurts, it affects your self esteem, so why do that to her? i know the only way the mutual jealousy feeling can be reached is if i become that object to strange men, then it’s not so fun anymore for “the boys” because feelings are at stake for both parties.
i don’t think phil would feel threatened, actually i KNOW he wouldn’t if i went to a chip n dales or attended a bachelorette party and a male stripper turned up, herein lies another double standard as that male stripper comes across as more of an actor than sexual object, it feels faked whereas female strippers are craftier and more believable, cunning even, fuck i’ve def given money away to plenty.
the point is, fil would not be jealous of me ogling another man, but he would be jealous if i was ogled by one, so that’s what’d have to be done in this scenario that applies to me/us.
u kinda make it sound like women are these prudish little things sitting around a table drinking out of penis straws for their bachlorette parties… ive seen ladies goin buck wild out on their bachlorette nites… so thats not really valid.
and i really dont think it’s that complicated… if your wife-to-be is ok with it, then she is, and if she’s not, you should be man enough to respect her feelings. and the same thing goes for her and what she wants to do for her nite… if youre about to marry this person you should already know your limits and whats going too far… fair is fair too. it would be totally fucked up if your dude went to a strip club for his party and then got pissed if you went to one for yours…
ive met plenty of girls that enjoy goin to the strip club WITH guys… so u cant really say it’s not a legit activity for a bachelor party…
zach, those chicks are faking it.
i cannot comment on bachelorette parties because i have never been to one but i have seen the penis straw pics for many of them on FB, meanwhile the dudes are snorting coke with escorts in a fancy suite.
yeah, i get it, in terms of feelings its the same, your feelings are hurt, so his should be to, but the actions arent even, lets be honest here, the strip clubs arent really about the girls, its about the guys sitting in there being lonely or just perverse, the girls are interchangeable.
in terms of emotions vs emotions, you are making your point, jealousy is created in you by him going, and jealousy would be created in him by you doing that, i just view the actions as not really being on the same level.
to me you stripping would be like someone smashing my tv, and him watching the strippers is like someone watching someone smash my tv, and enjoying it, id be pissed at them, but i cant really blame them, since they only watched.
its an awkward situation, that could be avoided by people just not doing something that obviously hurts your partner, even if she says shes fine with it, why bother going? have her get naked instead, its free, and you can get cheaper drinks at home.
again, for me/us it’s even. that would be an unlikely consequence should he go to a strip club. unlikely cos he wouldn’t go (my own feelings about it aside) and he’d know how much it would piss me off. i’m just using the if you do that i’ll do this essentially as a threat. it’s better than a straight month of silent treatment and cold shoulder, cos then i would suffer from that and it’s not like phil is missing out on anything either – the rest of this sentence would just be TMI the end.
haha zach, yeah, girls can get crazy to at the male strippers, ive heard stories, and most are much worse than things that ive seen happen at the female shows, i once heard a girl got pinkeye while in there because someone rubbed their willy on her face…
id be jealous if my girlfriend went there, because ive heard things, a male stripper is there for pay but is also enjoying having girls all over him, and touching him and shit, the female strippers for the most part are all about the money, and they get what they can out of you while giving you the least they can.
ehh.. ok, too many long comments, damn ephedrine and its making me chatty, i need to leave computer now.
Fantasy in that there are well-defined parameters to the interaction. Both parties know it’s not really leading anywhere. I’m going to tell her I’m a ski instructor, she’s going to say she’s just stripping to pay for medical school, she’ll lie into my ear and tell me how turned on she is while shaking her tits in my face, the song will be over and I hand her $20. We’re both in on the illusion, and I enjoy it anyway.
But I wouldn’t insist on participating if my girlfriend would get pissed. That’s just obvious.
if that scenario took place with someone i was dating that’s pretty much saying ok time to break up. if a hot stranger is required to get my partner off that is not a good thing.
I did go to a bachelorette party where the handsome male stripper was grinding all the party goers
at the end of the night
he was raffled off
and a married woman won the chance to go home with him
She chose to go
so much for her happy marriage
yeah whatever. more sexy pictures please!!!
i make sure i start my day by seeing what cute raymi is wearing.
mom that doesn’t sounds like a stripper that sounds like a hooker, which is a definite definite deal breaker.
Yeah, you have to be equitable… My husband would be allowed to go to a strip club (if he wanted to; I can’t picture it), but I’m allowed to be naked on the internet. He’s allowed to be with other girls (NOT behind my back), but I’m allowed to date other girls. So, *shrug*. I guess we kinda have your rule in play… If he suddenly had a problem with anything I was doing, he’d damn well be on lockdown, too. But non-monogamy isn’t really the norm, so yes, most other guys should stay the fuck home!
I can’t really imagine what a basket case I’d be if my relationship wasn’t the way it is. Dude’s in California on tour, drinking and smoking with scantily clad chicks… I’m jealous, but only because I’ve never been to the west coast, and I am sitting in my cubicle at work. Bastard! But I know that when I’ve gone along with them in the past that the other guys’ girlfriends would be calling every five minutes.
Also, this… The WebWhore Manifesto: http://tastytrixie.com/manifesto.html — I very much agree with this lady.
Well, yeah. If REQUIRED, that would be a problem.
I was totally a secret agent. Just sayin’. I’d equate the experience loosely to being at an art auction. Lots of people, drinks in hand, lounging around. Some people talk, some people look at the art.
i can honestly say that i have NO issue with my man going to a strip club. none.
i think going to the strippers is a stupid, silly thing that some men do. its your problem if you choose to date one of those retarded meat heads who gets all sweaty and rowdy with their “boys” and then gets the idea in their head that they’re going to take one of the girls home. (or going with the intention to try to do that.) the key is choosing someone you can trust and to do your best to deal with jealousy.
but yes, the crazy bitch in the hangover totally had me going, “shit, is that me? that’s not me, right? RIGHT?”
there are double standards that work both ways for both men and women.
women tend to openly accept those advantages without fail whenever they arise.
with men on the other hand it turns into a civil rights debate!
first, let’s get this out of the way: i have zero interest (repeat this with me my potential bachelor-party-planners: ZERO INTEREST) in going to a stripclub for any bachelor party i may or may not have.
now, that said, i disagree with the raymilogic and here’s why: you say you would need to strip and be slutty around other men for things to be equivalent to me watching other women strip and be slutty around me, since you just going to see male strippers wouldn’t make me jealous (you’re right, it totally wouldn’t). but what if you stripping and dancing for other men didn’t make me jealous either (totally possible, lots of strippers have non-jealous boyfriends)? would you then have to go even further, like actually do something with another guy to make me jealous, thereby equalizing things? you giving another guy a beej will never be equal to me going to a stripclub.
i think you have to allow for the fact that people are different – some people are just not the jealous type, and i don’t think that their partners should punish them for it by stuffing their mouths with strange dicks or giving out handjobs willy-nilly.
i dont think those girls that like rollin to the strip club are faking it at all… they sure seem to be having a hella good time whenever i see them in there. and the strippers always seem to dig havin other girls around too…
and i think phils art auction analogy is valid too. ive seen plenty aof dudes just kickin it havin a drink and some laughs with their buddies lookin at the girls but not touching them or having them grind on ‘em…
i guess like i said, if your bird aint down for it then respect her for that and dont go and vice versa… and if she’s too lame to not be up front and honest, then its her prob not his. and dont kid yourself, there are most definitely girls out there that go and fully enjoy the strip club experience with the guys… it takes all kinds…
I’ve pretty much said a lot of the same things you just have, in conversations with male friends.
They never seem to get it.
I DO know some girls that are ok with their boyfriends or husbands going to strip clubs, but the majority of women just pretend to. We don’t wanna seem needy, you’re right. But honestly… if going to watch guys get naked with the girls every weekend was a “right of passage” for us, our men would have issues with that and let it be known (only if the male strip clubs were anywhere near as dirty as the female ones).
px – raymilogic boils down to YOU pissed me off so now i’m going to piss you off and we’re having a stag and doe, the end.
zach i’ve known chicks who pretend to be into the strip club thing just so they can keep an eye on their man. i myself have only ever gone when completely annihilated and it was MY idea but then once there i’m like, this. sucks. why are we here again? maybe it’s more fun and less threatening for west coasters cos they don’t go fully nude there (i think?) and aside from sitting and watching and no lap dances, the girls STILL cruise the room attempting to work over the dude, luring them into a private show whatever it is annoying and unavoidable.
go to fucking amsterdam and hit up a brothel while you’re at it ps. we’re breaking up.
when i left my comment i accidentally subscribed to get all comments. anyway.
i think girls who do not care at all about strips clubs probably don’t know what goes on there. yes, guys are not allowed to touch and are supposed to just sit there–that’s the rule. but if the guy has enough money and/or the stripper LIKES the guy, guess what? that goes out the window and the guy can do whatever the girl lets him. not out in the main room, but that’s what the private rooms are for.
you don’t care if your guy gets the peep show, but do you care if he eats a girl out? cos it happens. in the clubs and esp. w/ strippers who come into the home for parties. many of them have it part of their regular routine to put whipped cream on the boobs and have guys lick it off. you really don’t care if your guy sucks another girl’s tits? these aren’t just the cheap trashy strippers, don’t kid yourselves.
as for the people complaining that a girl stripping isn’t equal to her man seeing a different girl strip, well guess, it’s the culture. let’s go to the beach and i’ll say it’s equal for us to both take our shirts off. oh wait, no? that’s not fair because it’s different? same thing with strippers. guys’ cocks are not glamorized in every advertisement the way women’s bodies are. just not the same thing.
thought i’ve been to a male strip club and seen some girls get really excited and get private rooms and all that. then there are the other girls who obvs. feel uncomfortable and the ones like me who just think it’s a big funny joke.
a male stripper in no way shape or form equates the loads of sexual imagery dudes are gifted with on a daily basis.
i agree dear, the world is a fucking sexist place.
jessica, i think if you paraded around on the beach topless with your topless boyfriend or husband or whomever, the only people (among the 18 – 45 set) who would have a problem with it are other women (last i checked, women can go topless legally here in the enlightened province of ontario).
yes you must feel for women deeply. pfft.
remember i tried to go topless that one time and asked out loud if anyone had a problem with it and remember who said yes? ughhhhhhhh.
The US is slightly less enlightened–depending on who was around I could get arrested for such a display.
also something not completely related but sort of funny–when i was in brasil i went to a strip club and almost all the strippers had braces. in the us that is associated with adolescence b/c that’s when most people get them. in brasil parents don’t usually foot the bill and the 18-25 crowd gets braces for themselves w/ their first “real job” money.
it was so funny b/c here braces are a turn off that represent an awkward and non-sexy age, but there they are a status symbol and you could tell the strippers were super proud of them.
remember gwen stefani’s braces phase wtf?
1. I agree with fil on this one.
2. Raymi, your tan is amazing.
you agree with fil on what exactly
so basically you’re not jealous, yet i am, so you get to go to a strip club and i can’t punish you for it. where is the logic there?
My husband has never been to a strip club and I really don’t think he has much interest. For our wedding we didn’t do the bachelor/bachelorette parties. We had a night out with our friends to celebrate our wedding, not as a “last hurrah”. This choice had nothing to do with not trusting eachother either, it was more to do with the fact that we weren’t into all the typical wedding traditions. We just kept it low key.
So I won’t say that I am really comfortable with the idea of my husband looking at strippers but we have an agreement that if he wants to he can go for a bachelor party as long as there is no touching or lap dances involved. I guess I would rather leave the decision up to him and if he feels like he should go to be a part of his friends bachelor party then that’s fine. I’m not interested in strippers either but if my friend wanted me to go see them for a bachelorette party I would go. I guess the way I feel is that for most people it’s just a silly tradition but there will always be some people who take it too far. I would never be with the kind of guy who would think it was ok to visit the strippers just for the hell of it or who thinks it’s ok to touch or be touched by another woman in any context. So him going out to see the strippers to make his buddy happy for one night is just not really a big deal to me.
However I do have a problem with the notion that it’s a man’s right of passage or whatever. I think our culture is way too saturated with sex. I have no issue with nudity at all but unfortunately in our North American culture nudity = sex. Which is why so many people take issue with your nipples I assume. I would much rather see a photo of a nude woman (or man) for the sake of art or even just for the sake of being nude than I would for the sake of turning men on. It’s been done.
Raymi, yes, there is a double standard between men and women, but logical awareness of that fact doesn’t change things because the double standard is, at it’s core, a biological double standard. Women have two contradictory instincts in this case. They have the instinct to feel secure in the relationship (which leads them to forbid strippers and/or go flirt with guys in an attempt to get their bf to knock it off, etc.), and they have the instinct to see their men being men, which actually turns them on. Be honest, Raymi, deep down isn’t there some part of you that gets turned on by the thought of Phil banging sexy women? Yeah, it’ll make you jealous, but don’t you like it too? In my experience, that’s the case with most women. If Phil all of sudden started hiding his pervy side in order to please you, yeah, you would feel a bit more secure, but you would also lose attraction to Phil. The things that make women insecure are often the same things that turn them on.
Here’s the double standard and why it doesn’t work:
When Phil is getting attention from other women, you get jealous/turned on (it’s biological, not a choice) because
it’s a sign that Phil is a high value man (on the other hand, if Phil was compulsively seeking the attention of women, you would be turned off because that’s low self-esteem/low value behavior), but if you went out and stripped for other men, there’s a good chance Phil would be turned off by it, because it’s low self-esteem attention whore behavior on your part and thus a turn off to most men, at least in a relationship sense.
To sum things up, bitching (not talking about you here, Raymi) about the double standard is pointless. It exists because it’s a product of biology, not society. Women like studs (b/c it’s high value) and men dislike sluts (b/c it’s low self-esteem and therefore low value). That’s just the way it is. My advice is to let yourself be turned on by Phil being a man. This works because deep down you already are. It’s not fair, but neither is the fact that you secretly enjoy the thought of Phil being with other women, while he, most likely, doesn’t feel the same way about you being with other men.