it’s been awhile since we’ve had a good old fashioned raymi rant in these parts so here i go. this one is entitled HOW I FEEL ABOUT TAKEN MEN GOING TO STRIP CLUBS. yes, nothing bad can come of this ha.
so it’s been on my mind since we watched the hangover (if you haven’t seen it i’m not really going to give any spoilers away, i mean, they go to vegas so one can only assume strippers are involved) and great film can’t wait to see it again. i actually started formulating this when the trailer first hit, more like a don’t even CONSIDER a vegas boys weekend ever guy to fil (oh boohoo poor fil here’s a preemptive fuck you to all the guys just in case) and that was it. then we watched the movie and afterward i said you know, here’s my two cents, firstly, strip clubs are not a right of passage before marriage. i do not get why they are synonymous with bachelor parties aside from the pervert drunk louse friends (every guy has one of those friends and we have our eye on you buster) who want a gander at the expense of their buddy’s life “about to be over” therefore he NEEDS to have the ass of another woman in his face one last time before the fun stops. sorry i don’t plan on being miserable for the rest of my life either but this negative mindset placed onto women at the start of marriage is the dude’s fault, a stereotype that gains more and more clout over time until it becomes true.
here’s the thing, if you are going to get wasted and party with strippers then i am going to get wasted and strip for men. i’m going to perv out all over them. if you are going to celebrate with loose women then i will be loose with men.
how come it’s ok for men to go out with the boys to the club while women stay at home playing penis drinking games hoovering wine then some cheesy dude stripper who can’t even be considered human comes in bobbling his banana hammock and that’s somehow even? no offense to those bachelorette parties, i’m just trying to make a point here and that point is jealousy.
do i feel jealous visualizing my boyfriend staring up at naked chicks with perfect bodies? um i have a pulse, so, yes. women who allow their men to go out to strip clubs and appear as if they do not care about it are fucking liars. or worse, they actually no longer care about their men. that’s heartbreaking to me. you should feel flattered by my jealousy actually cos the moment i stop making a fuss that means i am OVER YOU. like one time i let a girlfriend of mine blow an ex bf right in front of me, i let that same chick do it to two different guys on separate occasions actually, and i could see in both the guy’s stupid faces how lucky they felt and happy and were completely elated WOW hit the fucking lottery here this must mean something. yes it does mean something and that being i’m beyond over you and this is how i’m letting you down easy with a beej from my whore friend. pretty generous if you ask me. (it’s a sneaky dirty trick you can bring up later on when the guy is sobbing and saying nasty desperate things you just passive aggressively remind him that he got blown by your friend in front of you so who’s the one who cares about whom now?)
here is an article i found on jezebel earlier this week that reminded me of all this, it’s their take on a piece written on that AskMen site 5 Lies All Women Tell written by Madeline Murphy and originally published two years ago then revived for some reason again (that’s rather telling) anyway read it all but specifically this part stood out for me:
2. “I don’t mind if you go to strip clubs with the boys.” This is a lie that women tell to make themselves seem “less pathetically needy.” This is another no-win situation for women. Either they are liars and hate their boyfriends for having a little harmless fun the boys (by objectifying naked strangers) or… well, if you aren’t needy and insecure, than I guess you are not a real women. Murphy instructs men to handle this situation by not going to strip clubs; “You’re probably better off just not going. Ask yourself: Are two hours of bare booty worth weeks, even months, of bitchy comments?”
Winner: Tie. Men are deprived of the privileged of spending a “boy’s night out” ogling naked women, but women are insecure harpies bent on securing their boyfriend’s unhappiness.
and here are my replies to this:
raymi
07/08/09
if men should be allowed to go hang with strippers then women should be allowed to hang with strange men and be slutty with them while doing it. fair is fair.
TurtleSpeak
07/08/09
@raymi: Like, for every lap dance he receives, she gives one to a random dude at a bar? Sounds fair to me, too.
raymi
07/08/09
@TurtleSpeak: exactly. if your man is gonna get blasted with sluts then i’m gonna be slutty and get blasted with men.
chancentrate
07/09/09
@raymi: weird logic - he gets girls all over him, and yet you don’t want guys all over you, you want to be all over guys…not exactly like for like.
raymi
07/09/09
@chancentrate: it makes a point - if you are going to stray from me, then i am going to stray from you. how is that NOT like for like? the visual of that is what would get to him.
deep down, well not even all that deep down, i want to be a stripper, but i can’t because girls like me know you only become a stripper as a last resort and various other stigmas. plenty of women want to be strippers. how many annoying feminist-driven debates have you been privy to regarding stripping? ugh nevermind spare me (it’s empowering raaaaah own your sexuality zzzz don’t be an object BE a subject what?!) all the music videos we love to get hard to how close to simulated sex are they? how come super famous entertainers (actresses, singers) can do it and get away with it but one person in your circle finds out and you get nothing but shit for it? why are other women allowed to strip, and essentially we and anyone we know, aren’t?
i suppose it’s the narcissist in me that craves that sort of attention and there is no feminist justification (excuse) behind it at all, it is purely animal at base, simple. men want to look and women want to be that package they look at. i want MY man to look AT ME in that way and if he walks out the door to look at another woman in that way, i see that as a failure.
why has showing my nipples (pretty tame if you ask me) garnered so much flack that it’s not even worth it anymore? why has that put me in the only popular because shows nudity category? guess the types who peg me as that btw: OTHER WOMEN and geeky men who get 5 visitors to their blogs a day. not going to bother with the other women thing as there’s a wack load of tiresome reasons i can’t be bothered with right now. as for the geeky, sorry fine, ordinary man, who wants to jerk off to porn on the internet to a nameless faceless starlet, why does it incense you so much to find out a woman has a personality behind those nipples? you are irritating and your conclusions are lazy. F.
a little off topic there sorry.
i almost forgot one of the points of this entire thing ha - so in the hangover one of the guys (total doormat controlled by bitch wife) finally gives it to her regarding where he’d been that weekend (lied) and to make us champion him more this woman is painted in an all out totally unlikable fashion. as a woman it plays on your emotions and makes you identify with her a little bit to the point where you feel like a total psycho, if you have any issues with control, being in control or losing control, i dunno, it’s pretty hypocritical cos the guys go on a complete tear yet she is a monster. anyway, when he finally gets it out that they were in vegas with strippers she flips and asks WHY and he states BECAUSE THAT’S WHAT MEN DO. he might have said guys. no matter. back to my point, or questions rather, if that is what guys do, then as women, what do we get to do that’s of equal magnitude cos all i can think of is BE strippers and have our asses spanked by strange men. don’t like picturing that dudes? THEN DON’T GO TO THE FUCKING STRIP CLUB!
thoughts?
also, i know of a strip club (pure gold) in the burbs that will not allow women in unless they are accompanied by a male and the reason for this is because women kept storming the door causing scenes and embarrassing the (wealthy established) clientele, dragging their men out. that is absurd. what is this the fucking flintstones and pure gold, the lodge? how helpless, neglected, and alone those women must feel.
ps. happy face sticker is still up. when did i stick it there, i think around my birthday so late march.
check out these tights!
July 10th, 2009 at 12:53 pm
100% agree with you on this one. I am getting married in August and have been trying to help my fiance’s (hate the term) bestman in England throw something together here in Toronto, the first rule was no strip clubs. He had never even been to one so there was no further debate. End story, I think they are going on a charter boat salmon fishing…
July 10th, 2009 at 12:55 pm
that sounds good. i forgot to mention that stag ‘n does/jack ‘n jills are for couples who don’t trust each other hahaa.
July 10th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
Quite a rant there!
As a guy, I can say with all honestly, for my bachelor party I wouldn’t want it to be at the rippers for the same reasons you mention above in regards to my girlfriend; it would be unsettling to have the roles reversed. But also, I love hanging out with my buds. I’d rather shoot the shit with them, have some beers & sharing laughs. I’ve seen some creative ideas for parties that don’t include strip clubs and they’ve been some of the best times I’ve had.
I’m not sure if you’ve touched on this but what is your opinion when it’s out of the guy’s hands? Imagine the film, but instead he didn’t hide it from his girlfriend. Luckily I haven’t been in that situation before, but on one side, I do want to support my friend and if this is what’s happening, I don’t want to be the one to shit all over it. On the other hand, my girlfriend is of the same mindset as you. I’d undoubtedly not attend that portion of it at least for my girlfriend, but I can’t help but think that if you take the atmosphere out of it, he just wanted me to come and have some drinks. It’s just unfortunate that someone else planned it to be this way.
Great post
July 10th, 2009 at 1:03 pm
My issue on strip clubs is that it is just as frustrating as window shopping but worse because you still leave with your wallet empty. I have been on occasion to strip clubs with guy friends and every time I leave I’m all horned up with no where to release. All that sexual energy in there!
I too kinda think the stripper passage rite is a bit lamo. One picks to GET married and be with ONE woman for the rest of their lives. If you needed a one time last time fling to see if this is the life you wanna lead.. MAYBE you should have thought about figuring that shit out BEFORE you bought the ring and proposed. Just saying!
But i like your direction regarding stagette party! One time in Montreal I was in The Super Sexe strip club and at one of the stages was a bunch of girls on a stagette. The bride to be ended up getting dragged up on stage by 2 strippers… and they bascially half stripped her and made her do things - get on hands and knees while one stripper rode her around whipping her bottom with a riding whip, encouraged her to get on the stripper pole and dance… made her stand bending forward over back of a chair while they paddled her lightly.. etc..etc.. The bride to be was fairly drunk and at first was very timid and shy but the alcohol soon came over her and she was down right getting into it!
So maybe for your bachelorette party YOU should get to try it out.. a ONE time deal… and blame it on the booze and your LAST night of freedom.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:07 pm
Couldn’t have said it better myself.
I agree 100 percent! Also we should call the human rights tribunal and complain that we are being discriminated against on the basis of gender at Pure Gold. What about the poor lesbians?
July 10th, 2009 at 1:09 pm
awesome post, lots of stuff in there. i especially liked the bit about how you want to be the sexy thing that your man ogles, and maybe other men as well. there’s some contradiction though in saying that you’d like to be a stripper but can’t because of the stigma attached to it, but then you also call strippers ‘loose women’ and sluts. that’s basically the stigma that’s attached to it. i have a friend in vancouver who i met through blogging who has been a stripper for a long time and loves it. she’s an intelligent woman with at least one degree, amazing skills in all kinds of things, she doesn’t do drugs and isn’t sleazy, and really cares about her friends and wouldn’t ever try to steal their men away or anything like that. in short, she’s a super cool lady, like you. and she likes stripping. she’s working hard to make it not so taboo and to get ordinary women to get out of their boxes a little bit and try out ‘the art of seduction’ in women-only workshops so they can take those skills into the bedroom with their own men (which i think is probably way more tantalizing to most men in relationships than watching some stranger do it, after all, this is the woman they want and what’s sexier than having her try and seduce him? it’s a no brainer).
i think you’re right about there being a lot of stigma around stripping or even just being a sexy and seductive woman. like the whole thing with you having some nudity on your blog. people are really uptight about that and they impose their uptightness on everyone else. i’d kind of like to say that it’d help if people just got in touch with their own sexiness so they didn’t feel so threatened by other sexy people, but obviously that’s not all of it.
um yeah, i have more to say but have to go! so yeah. inconclusive.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:10 pm
Fuck yeah dude, I hate having to MATCH whatever annoying shit men do like we don’t enjoy the same things ok? Another good point about the woman in the hangover is that I totally was watching Mark to see if he thought I was “like that” or something and it made me feel crazy, absolutely. Last thing can we just fuckin drop male (straight) strippers? they’re such greaseballs, why do they exist? who wants to look at that holy shit let it die already!
July 10th, 2009 at 1:11 pm
phil - nothing is ever out of a guy’s hands, that’s a cop-out “oh i didn’t know” as if. going along with the crowd is not an excuse, unacceptable. so suffer the consequences, you blew it before you were even married.
amy - i’ve had plenty of stripper experiences and the overwhelming conclusion was, that wasn’t all that fun. i have witnessed some men (friends of mine) turn into sexist inappropriate demeaning pricks, ridiculing and judging each stripper (which is real rich to me considering how disgusting the dude’s appearances are) and then they get aggressive, crude and abrasive from their sexual frustration and booze, not cool at all i have gotten on stage with a fiver in my mouth feeling like i need to one-up everyone and that’s stupid. not to mention how depressing the entire scene can get if you look into it deeper. not top mention going home feeling dumpy and plain. FUN!
July 10th, 2009 at 1:13 pm
Definitely agree with you on this one! I love the theory that if they go to strippers, well we should go and strip FOR other men to drool over us and slut it up hardcore! What are your thoughts on bachlorettes going to Vegas?
July 10th, 2009 at 1:15 pm
katyp - i was generalizing in that forum and certainly not all strippers are sluts or loose. i left that hastily in that forum w/o thinking. however, i have encountered MANY slutty strippers so mainly was speaking from personal experience. i was being extreme about it to make a point to create a visual of me being slutty (just a term) to put the jealousy meter over the edge.
i’m trying to avoid a hugely ethical feminist debate here basically.
lainy - i think it just sounds like expensive trouble and why not do something more original and fun?
July 10th, 2009 at 1:27 pm
Strip joints are depressing, plain and simple. It can be mildly entertaining when you go with a female friend who wants to see what it’s all about but really…. a dank little hole filled with sweaty greaseball men hiding in the dark ogling women they’d never have the courage to speak to on the street? Pretty sad.
I love seeing women naked, it’s just a lot more fun at home.
I do know a few strippers though who get off on the power they have over men when they dance. I can kind of see that but still….
July 10th, 2009 at 1:57 pm
i think it has to be illegal for a strip club to now allow women in as a general rule.
July 10th, 2009 at 1:58 pm
oops, NOT allow.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:00 pm
the rule was you have to have a male escorting you so like, hire a cab and drag the driver in haha.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:04 pm
I was talking about being an attendee to the party, not the bachelor himself. I agree, the “I didn’t know” is a cop-out.
Dan, you reminded me about another reason why I’ve never been a fan of the strip clubs: The ‘regulars’. The ones who are shouting, moaning or grunting at the dancers. My one memorable time at a strip club was sitting around a table, not really watching the girls, but discussing the song choices. Thought I’d share.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:07 pm
the guys who sit like they are secret agents all polite and reserved disassociating from their surroundings are pretty funny. oh! am i actually at a strip club well whaddyaknow?
July 10th, 2009 at 2:13 pm
Wow, couldn’t have said it better myself! Besides, why pay for a slutty girl to bump and grind on them when they can get that at home for FREE?! My friend had a bachelor party where they brought in a stripper to somebody’s place. He told me his wife probably would’ve called off the wedding entirely, had she found out about the “shenanigans” that took place at said party. I can’t even imagine the kind of shit that went down…Actually, I probably can. =P
July 10th, 2009 at 2:14 pm
I think it’s a great proposal. Make each other jealous and then take that energy into the bedroom and have great jealous make-up sex. Win-win.
Problem for me is, I don’t know how jealous I would get since I consider it all fantasy. Do you get upset when your man watches porn without you? It’s all of a piece to me.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:19 pm
eh… i can kind of see your point, but i dont think him going to a strip club and you stripping would be an eye for an eye scenario. In terms of him going to see naked ladies pissing you off, and you being the naked lady in front of men pissing him off, i get that, but the situation of being the stripper vs the stripee, its not exactly the same.
As the “stripee” you are an observer (lap dances excluded i guess) you are there to watch, and most guys realize that the dancer isnt into you, i guess this is where i get confused as to how you believe him looking at a naked girl, is the same as you being naked and having guys “slap your ass”, him looking at a naked girl is like you looking at a naked guy, that is the tit for tat in this, you being the girl the guys are looking at, would be like him being the stripper at a place and having girls wank him as he walks around naked.
of course this can all be avoided by both parties staying out of those places, how a strip club became the go to place for bachelor parties is beyond me, maybe it started with burlesque clubs, and just went from there?
the idea that a guy has to have one big hurrah before marriage does not bode well for their relationship in my eyes, the wedding should be the hurrah, it is a privilege, someone is giving themselves to you, and you to them, supposedly for eternity.
i think when i get married my bachelor party will be a pre-honeymoon honeymoon, travel somewhere with her, fuck like rabbits, enjoy a little vacation before the wedding kerfuffle, then get married, and have another honeymoon bang-fest to celebrate the privilege of loving someone so completely that you both dedicate your lives to one another.
to me atleast, that sounds alot better than seeing a naked girl i dont give a shit about in a shitty place with a bunch of shitheads.
long comment is long.
on the idea of strippers not being accepted in society, i kind of get it, theres a stigma associated with those places, alot of times they are seedy and the girls / owners are into things that society just doesnt accept. I guess girls not accepting girls who strip are mainly insecure, to be a successful dancer you have to be good looking, a talented dancer, and you have to be sexy, while most girls dont care about how well they can dance, its in alot of girls minds that they arent that sexy and alot of girls have body issues.
Of course i grew up catholic so i dont even get naked at the gym, i arrive in gym clothes, i leave in sweaty gym clothes, and me and my shame both have a nice shower in the privacy of my own home.
gah, still a long comment, i apologize.
on the subject of you baring your nipples, ive actually thought about this once i saw your nipples on here, i came upon your website from daryn jones’ twitter, he replied to you and i saw your page that way, and thus your website. to me it was nipple free, you were a cool and interesting person, and ive been reading your site since then, then i saw the nipples, and i didnt think “oh, she only shows boobs to get views” my immediate reaction was “woah, nipples, ok” and instead of reading your blog to see how much clothing you would remove, im reading as an interested person, because you are interesting, it was kind of nice to get the “ok, thats what she looks like naked” thing out of the way, i guess alot of guys cant get past that, and all they want to see are more boobs.
or as you said, jealous females cant get past that, either way, you cant please everyone, and maybe the females that dislike your more risque pictures are jealous, either that they wouldnt dare show their body in such a way, or that they dont have the guts to put themselves out there like that.
eh, im done now, christ that is a long comment.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:21 pm
scott - how can you consider something fantasy if it actually took place?
another thing that irks me about this is one, phil is a babe and to be stereotypical, some strippers are on the prowl for men to “save” them from their world, then they see phil, then i lose my shit. case closed.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:28 pm
jjones - woah longest comment yet. to me it does even the playing field that i should get to perform stripteases for men, because this is how I feel about it, this is my un/reality here, if you will. i feel jealousy from my man ogling another woman so the manner in which i will even it up is to make a point of being ogled by other men, be it by stripping or just flirting in a bar, taking off all my clothes. the ante isn’t being upped at all, it just feels that way cos once the tables are turned and only then, do you see how it makes us feel. two can play at this game basically. i feel going to the strip club is disrespectful to your signif. other and it’s not “just fun” with “the boys” because it hurts, it affects your self esteem, so why do that to her? i know the only way the mutual jealousy feeling can be reached is if i become that object to strange men, then it’s not so fun anymore for “the boys” because feelings are at stake for both parties.
i don’t think phil would feel threatened, actually i KNOW he wouldn’t if i went to a chip n dales or attended a bachelorette party and a male stripper turned up, herein lies another double standard as that male stripper comes across as more of an actor than sexual object, it feels faked whereas female strippers are craftier and more believable, cunning even, fuck i’ve def given money away to plenty.
the point is, fil would not be jealous of me ogling another man, but he would be jealous if i was ogled by one, so that’s what’d have to be done in this scenario that applies to me/us.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:33 pm
u kinda make it sound like women are these prudish little things sitting around a table drinking out of penis straws for their bachlorette parties… ive seen ladies goin buck wild out on their bachlorette nites… so thats not really valid.
and i really dont think it’s that complicated… if your wife-to-be is ok with it, then she is, and if she’s not, you should be man enough to respect her feelings. and the same thing goes for her and what she wants to do for her nite… if youre about to marry this person you should already know your limits and whats going too far… fair is fair too. it would be totally fucked up if your dude went to a strip club for his party and then got pissed if you went to one for yours…
ive met plenty of girls that enjoy goin to the strip club WITH guys… so u cant really say it’s not a legit activity for a bachelor party…
July 10th, 2009 at 2:36 pm
zach, those chicks are faking it.
i cannot comment on bachelorette parties because i have never been to one but i have seen the penis straw pics for many of them on FB, meanwhile the dudes are snorting coke with escorts in a fancy suite.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:38 pm
yeah, i get it, in terms of feelings its the same, your feelings are hurt, so his should be to, but the actions arent even, lets be honest here, the strip clubs arent really about the girls, its about the guys sitting in there being lonely or just perverse, the girls are interchangeable.
in terms of emotions vs emotions, you are making your point, jealousy is created in you by him going, and jealousy would be created in him by you doing that, i just view the actions as not really being on the same level.
to me you stripping would be like someone smashing my tv, and him watching the strippers is like someone watching someone smash my tv, and enjoying it, id be pissed at them, but i cant really blame them, since they only watched.
its an awkward situation, that could be avoided by people just not doing something that obviously hurts your partner, even if she says shes fine with it, why bother going? have her get naked instead, its free, and you can get cheaper drinks at home.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:41 pm
again, for me/us it’s even. that would be an unlikely consequence should he go to a strip club. unlikely cos he wouldn’t go (my own feelings about it aside) and he’d know how much it would piss me off. i’m just using the if you do that i’ll do this essentially as a threat. it’s better than a straight month of silent treatment and cold shoulder, cos then i would suffer from that and it’s not like phil is missing out on anything either - the rest of this sentence would just be TMI the end.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:42 pm
haha zach, yeah, girls can get crazy to at the male strippers, ive heard stories, and most are much worse than things that ive seen happen at the female shows, i once heard a girl got pinkeye while in there because someone rubbed their willy on her face…
id be jealous if my girlfriend went there, because ive heard things, a male stripper is there for pay but is also enjoying having girls all over him, and touching him and shit, the female strippers for the most part are all about the money, and they get what they can out of you while giving you the least they can.
ehh.. ok, too many long comments, damn ephedrine and its making me chatty, i need to leave computer now.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:51 pm
Fantasy in that there are well-defined parameters to the interaction. Both parties know it’s not really leading anywhere. I’m going to tell her I’m a ski instructor, she’s going to say she’s just stripping to pay for medical school, she’ll lie into my ear and tell me how turned on she is while shaking her tits in my face, the song will be over and I hand her $20. We’re both in on the illusion, and I enjoy it anyway.
But I wouldn’t insist on participating if my girlfriend would get pissed. That’s just obvious.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:55 pm
if that scenario took place with someone i was dating that’s pretty much saying ok time to break up. if a hot stranger is required to get my partner off that is not a good thing.
July 10th, 2009 at 2:57 pm
I did go to a bachelorette party where the handsome male stripper was grinding all the party goers
at the end of the night
he was raffled off
and a married woman won the chance to go home with him
She chose to go
so much for her happy marriage
July 10th, 2009 at 3:01 pm
yeah whatever. more sexy pictures please!!!
i make sure i start my day by seeing what cute raymi is wearing.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:04 pm
mom that doesn’t sounds like a stripper that sounds like a hooker, which is a definite definite deal breaker.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Yeah, you have to be equitable… My husband would be allowed to go to a strip club (if he wanted to; I can’t picture it), but I’m allowed to be naked on the internet. He’s allowed to be with other girls (NOT behind my back), but I’m allowed to date other girls. So, *shrug*. I guess we kinda have your rule in play… If he suddenly had a problem with anything I was doing, he’d damn well be on lockdown, too. But non-monogamy isn’t really the norm, so yes, most other guys should stay the fuck home!
I can’t really imagine what a basket case I’d be if my relationship wasn’t the way it is. Dude’s in California on tour, drinking and smoking with scantily clad chicks… I’m jealous, but only because I’ve never been to the west coast, and I am sitting in my cubicle at work. Bastard! But I know that when I’ve gone along with them in the past that the other guys’ girlfriends would be calling every five minutes.
Also, this… The WebWhore Manifesto: http://tastytrixie.com/manifesto.html — I very much agree with this lady.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:07 pm
Well, yeah. If REQUIRED, that would be a problem.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:13 pm
I was totally a secret agent. Just sayin’. I’d equate the experience loosely to being at an art auction. Lots of people, drinks in hand, lounging around. Some people talk, some people look at the art.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
i can honestly say that i have NO issue with my man going to a strip club. none.
i think going to the strippers is a stupid, silly thing that some men do. its your problem if you choose to date one of those retarded meat heads who gets all sweaty and rowdy with their “boys” and then gets the idea in their head that they’re going to take one of the girls home. (or going with the intention to try to do that.) the key is choosing someone you can trust and to do your best to deal with jealousy.
but yes, the crazy bitch in the hangover totally had me going, “shit, is that me? that’s not me, right? RIGHT?”
July 10th, 2009 at 3:23 pm
there are double standards that work both ways for both men and women.
women tend to openly accept those advantages without fail whenever they arise.
with men on the other hand it turns into a civil rights debate!
July 10th, 2009 at 3:45 pm
first, let’s get this out of the way: i have zero interest (repeat this with me my potential bachelor-party-planners: ZERO INTEREST) in going to a stripclub for any bachelor party i may or may not have.
now, that said, i disagree with the raymilogic and here’s why: you say you would need to strip and be slutty around other men for things to be equivalent to me watching other women strip and be slutty around me, since you just going to see male strippers wouldn’t make me jealous (you’re right, it totally wouldn’t). but what if you stripping and dancing for other men didn’t make me jealous either (totally possible, lots of strippers have non-jealous boyfriends)? would you then have to go even further, like actually do something with another guy to make me jealous, thereby equalizing things? you giving another guy a beej will never be equal to me going to a stripclub.
i think you have to allow for the fact that people are different - some people are just not the jealous type, and i don’t think that their partners should punish them for it by stuffing their mouths with strange dicks or giving out handjobs willy-nilly.
July 10th, 2009 at 3:49 pm
i dont think those girls that like rollin to the strip club are faking it at all… they sure seem to be having a hella good time whenever i see them in there. and the strippers always seem to dig havin other girls around too…
and i think phils art auction analogy is valid too. ive seen plenty aof dudes just kickin it havin a drink and some laughs with their buddies lookin at the girls but not touching them or having them grind on ‘em…
i guess like i said, if your bird aint down for it then respect her for that and dont go and vice versa… and if she’s too lame to not be up front and honest, then its her prob not his. and dont kid yourself, there are most definitely girls out there that go and fully enjoy the strip club experience with the guys… it takes all kinds…
July 10th, 2009 at 3:52 pm
I’ve pretty much said a lot of the same things you just have, in conversations with male friends.
They never seem to get it.
I DO know some girls that are ok with their boyfriends or husbands going to strip clubs, but the majority of women just pretend to. We don’t wanna seem needy, you’re right. But honestly… if going to watch guys get naked with the girls every weekend was a “right of passage” for us, our men would have issues with that and let it be known (only if the male strip clubs were anywhere near as dirty as the female ones).
July 10th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
px - raymilogic boils down to YOU pissed me off so now i’m going to piss you off and we’re having a stag and doe, the end.
zach i’ve known chicks who pretend to be into the strip club thing just so they can keep an eye on their man. i myself have only ever gone when completely annihilated and it was MY idea but then once there i’m like, this. sucks. why are we here again? maybe it’s more fun and less threatening for west coasters cos they don’t go fully nude there (i think?) and aside from sitting and watching and no lap dances, the girls STILL cruise the room attempting to work over the dude, luring them into a private show whatever it is annoying and unavoidable.
go to fucking amsterdam and hit up a brothel while you’re at it ps. we’re breaking up.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:14 pm
when i left my comment i accidentally subscribed to get all comments. anyway.
i think girls who do not care at all about strips clubs probably don’t know what goes on there. yes, guys are not allowed to touch and are supposed to just sit there–that’s the rule. but if the guy has enough money and/or the stripper LIKES the guy, guess what? that goes out the window and the guy can do whatever the girl lets him. not out in the main room, but that’s what the private rooms are for.
you don’t care if your guy gets the peep show, but do you care if he eats a girl out? cos it happens. in the clubs and esp. w/ strippers who come into the home for parties. many of them have it part of their regular routine to put whipped cream on the boobs and have guys lick it off. you really don’t care if your guy sucks another girl’s tits? these aren’t just the cheap trashy strippers, don’t kid yourselves.
as for the people complaining that a girl stripping isn’t equal to her man seeing a different girl strip, well guess, it’s the culture. let’s go to the beach and i’ll say it’s equal for us to both take our shirts off. oh wait, no? that’s not fair because it’s different? same thing with strippers. guys’ cocks are not glamorized in every advertisement the way women’s bodies are. just not the same thing.
thought i’ve been to a male strip club and seen some girls get really excited and get private rooms and all that. then there are the other girls who obvs. feel uncomfortable and the ones like me who just think it’s a big funny joke.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:19 pm
a male stripper in no way shape or form equates the loads of sexual imagery dudes are gifted with on a daily basis.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:27 pm
i agree dear, the world is a fucking sexist place.
jessica, i think if you paraded around on the beach topless with your topless boyfriend or husband or whomever, the only people (among the 18 - 45 set) who would have a problem with it are other women (last i checked, women can go topless legally here in the enlightened province of ontario).
July 10th, 2009 at 4:30 pm
yes you must feel for women deeply. pfft.
remember i tried to go topless that one time and asked out loud if anyone had a problem with it and remember who said yes? ughhhhhhhh.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:33 pm
The US is slightly less enlightened–depending on who was around I could get arrested for such a display.
also something not completely related but sort of funny–when i was in brasil i went to a strip club and almost all the strippers had braces. in the us that is associated with adolescence b/c that’s when most people get them. in brasil parents don’t usually foot the bill and the 18-25 crowd gets braces for themselves w/ their first “real job” money.
it was so funny b/c here braces are a turn off that represent an awkward and non-sexy age, but there they are a status symbol and you could tell the strippers were super proud of them.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:35 pm
remember gwen stefani’s braces phase wtf?
July 10th, 2009 at 4:38 pm
1. I agree with fil on this one.
2. Raymi, your tan is amazing.
July 10th, 2009 at 4:49 pm
you agree with fil on what exactly
so basically you’re not jealous, yet i am, so you get to go to a strip club and i can’t punish you for it. where is the logic there?
July 10th, 2009 at 4:56 pm
My husband has never been to a strip club and I really don’t think he has much interest. For our wedding we didn’t do the bachelor/bachelorette parties. We had a night out with our friends to celebrate our wedding, not as a “last hurrah”. This choice had nothing to do with not trusting eachother either, it was more to do with the fact that we weren’t into all the typical wedding traditions. We just kept it low key.
So I won’t say that I am really comfortable with the idea of my husband looking at strippers but we have an agreement that if he wants to he can go for a bachelor party as long as there is no touching or lap dances involved. I guess I would rather leave the decision up to him and if he feels like he should go to be a part of his friends bachelor party then that’s fine. I’m not interested in strippers either but if my friend wanted me to go see them for a bachelorette party I would go. I guess the way I feel is that for most people it’s just a silly tradition but there will always be some people who take it too far. I would never be with the kind of guy who would think it was ok to visit the strippers just for the hell of it or who thinks it’s ok to touch or be touched by another woman in any context. So him going out to see the strippers to make his buddy happy for one night is just not really a big deal to me.
However I do have a problem with the notion that it’s a man’s right of passage or whatever. I think our culture is way too saturated with sex. I have no issue with nudity at all but unfortunately in our North American culture nudity = sex. Which is why so many people take issue with your nipples I assume. I would much rather see a photo of a nude woman (or man) for the sake of art or even just for the sake of being nude than I would for the sake of turning men on. It’s been done.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:01 pm
Raymi, yes, there is a double standard between men and women, but logical awareness of that fact doesn’t change things because the double standard is, at it’s core, a biological double standard. Women have two contradictory instincts in this case. They have the instinct to feel secure in the relationship (which leads them to forbid strippers and/or go flirt with guys in an attempt to get their bf to knock it off, etc.), and they have the instinct to see their men being men, which actually turns them on. Be honest, Raymi, deep down isn’t there some part of you that gets turned on by the thought of Phil banging sexy women? Yeah, it’ll make you jealous, but don’t you like it too? In my experience, that’s the case with most women. If Phil all of sudden started hiding his pervy side in order to please you, yeah, you would feel a bit more secure, but you would also lose attraction to Phil. The things that make women insecure are often the same things that turn them on.
Here’s the double standard and why it doesn’t work:
When Phil is getting attention from other women, you get jealous/turned on (it’s biological, not a choice) because
it’s a sign that Phil is a high value man (on the other hand, if Phil was compulsively seeking the attention of women, you would be turned off because that’s low self-esteem/low value behavior), but if you went out and stripped for other men, there’s a good chance Phil would be turned off by it, because it’s low self-esteem attention whore behavior on your part and thus a turn off to most men, at least in a relationship sense.
To sum things up, bitching (not talking about you here, Raymi) about the double standard is pointless. It exists because it’s a product of biology, not society. Women like studs (b/c it’s high value) and men dislike sluts (b/c it’s low self-esteem and therefore low value). That’s just the way it is. My advice is to let yourself be turned on by Phil being a man. This works because deep down you already are. It’s not fair, but neither is the fact that you secretly enjoy the thought of Phil being with other women, while he, most likely, doesn’t feel the same way about you being with other men.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:02 pm
I am tired so you get my comment in point-form without any witty sentence joiners.
- I love The Hangover. Seen it three times (though this may be due in part to my love for B-Coop).
- Strip clubs in Vancouver are so tame, no touchies.
- Would I be pumped if my man went to a strip club? No. If he was going to get all up in some stripper’s tits and motorboat her and smack her ass, I’d be super pissed - that’s the truth. BUT if he was sitting around just watching and drinking with his buddies, I’d be totally cool with it. Been there with guys, done that, it’s no big deal - for real.
- Lap dances? No, not cool with him getting one of those either.
Maybe I could say more but my brain is dead now.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:20 pm
when women flirt with phil in front of me no it doesn’t turn me on and no it doesn’t make me go YAY phil you’re still hot what a man you are. i know he is hot i don’t need outside opinion to tell me that. it is irritating when he is flirted with in front of me and annoying and rude, embarrassing too for the woman, i feel embarrassed for her. security has nothing to do with it either, i am secure in this relationship. this is veering off course now.
“My advice is to let yourself be turned on by Phil being a man. This works because deep down you already are. It’s not fair, but neither is the fact that you secretly enjoy the thought of Phil being with other women, while he, most likely, doesn’t feel the same way about you being with other men.”
i feel like you are reading into our relationship and men/female dyanmics a little too much. in order for me to feel turned on by him being a man requires him going to strip clubs? that’s ass backward and archaic and actually a complete turn off. am i turned on when i’m pissed off? fuck no.
why is the brunt of this biological double standard to be placed on the fucking woman? it is up to us entirely to feel secure? part of that rests on the man’s shoulders and if my man was going out to strip clubs every week, how secure does that make me, or more importantly, the relationship itself. not very.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:28 pm
Bernard: believe it or don’t, but some women are able to be rational creatures, and don’t just act on every biological “instict” they have, but are able to transcend them because they know they’re ass backwards. And I don’t think you’re quite right about what those instincts are and why they exist at ALL, but whatever… go get a copy of “The Red Queen: Sex and the Evolution of Human Nature” by Matt Ridley.
July 10th, 2009 at 5:56 pm
Ah Raymes, my love for you is stronger than ever. Also…that’s a great tights link. Thanks!
July 10th, 2009 at 6:11 pm
“when women flirt with phil in front of me no it doensn’t turn me on and no it doesn’t make me go YAY phil you’re still hot what a man you are.”
I think it’s more subtle than that. It might not even be something you’re consciously aware of (no disrespect). But in my experience this is something that just about all women feel deep down, but some are more aware of it than others.
“i know he is hot i don’t need outside opinion to tell me that. it is irritating when he is flirted with in front of me and annoying and rude, embarrassing too for the woman, i feel embarrassed for her.”
It doesn’t have anything to do with the fact that he is hot. Imagine a hot guy who was completely needy and was so afraid of you that he never expressed sexual thoughts about other women for fear that he would offend you. I guarantee you that you would be turned off by him, no matter how hot he was. Also, the fact that you get pissed off doesn’t negate the fact that in the long run you’re turned on by it (I wouldn’t be surprised, though, if you were turned on by it even in the short run and just weren’t aware of it. Just like women dress more slutty at certaint times of the month without being aware of it). Horniness and anger are related. Think hard: are you sure there isn’t a part of you that likes knowing that Phil could bang other women if he wanted to?
“in order for me to feel turned on by him being a man requires him going to strip clubs? that’s ass backward and archaic and actually a complete turn off. am i turned on when i’m pissed off? fuck no.”
I never said that. A guy that goes to strip clubs all the time is most likely a desperate loser, which would turn you off. But a guy with a healthy sexuality who enjoys going to the strip club every once in a while, who isn’t a desperate loser, would turn you on, provided you were attracted to other parts of him. Deep down you know that a healthy confident guy with a normal healthy sex drive is going to enjoy fucking/looking at other women. When men lie to you and tell you that they don’t enjoy strips clubs, isn’t there a part of you that thinks it’s bullshit and he just doesn’t have the balls to admit it to you and so therefore he’s weak and therefore less attractive? You might be pissed off at the bf who occasionally enjoys strip clubs, but you’ll still be attracted to him. Not necessarily because of the fact of that he goes to strips clubs (although many women would secretly enjoy this), but because he’s a normal confident sexual guy who doesn’t need to lie about that fact that strip clubs are occoasionally fun.
“why is the brunt of this biological double standard to be placed on the fucking woman? it is up to us entirely to feel secure? part of that rests on the man’s shoulders and if my man was going out to strip clubs every week, how secure does that make me, or more importantly, the relationship itself. not very.”
The burden of the double standard is placed on both men and women equally, though in different ways. Men are more free to be sexual and have a high number of partners provided that their sexuality comes from a place of confidence, not from low self-esteem. However low self-esteem men have few or no sexual partners and are judged harshly for it by women, whereas women with low self-esteem have many sexual partners and are judged harshly for it by men. Women have the advantage of being turned on by sexually successful men, whereas men have the disadvantage of being turned of by sexually successful women (provided that their success stems from low self-esteem and not confidence)
July 10th, 2009 at 6:38 pm
well, we have topless and fully nude…
the fully nude ones ARE very pervy and on top if you cant drink booze!
the topless ones are definitely more low key sex wise, you are right.
July 10th, 2009 at 7:03 pm
bernard are you a woman? no. don’t insinuate that you know my gender more than i do. i am plenty aware of the dressing whorier at that time of the month. first and final warning, drop it, i am not going to admit to something that isn’t true in regards to allegedly being turned on by phil blasting another woman, can he bag other women, obviously. can i bag other men? duh. what is the point in even mentioning it other than to shit disturb. LET IT GO. also, it isn’t any of your business. psychoanalyze someone else.
the point of this post is: if men are going to be in a sexual environment with women strangers then the only way to even the table is to put women in a sexual environment with men, or let those women create the sexual atmosphere for those men - that’s the only way i could even it personally, this doesn’t apply to everyone else. all that bs of just going for a beer with the boys is exactly that, BULLSHIT. if that’s actually what you’re after, then go to a regular bar. you’re at the rippers getting buzzed staring at vag, are you thinking of your wife? pffffffft.
also, it’s called etiquette and social graces, which many people lack. men do not flirt with me in front of fil, or behind his back, out of respect for him as well, they see that it is pointless. women however, do not offer the same courtesy to me because they are catty passive aggressive witches. i too never flirt with men or women. we’ve had enough fun together over the course of our relationship and i feel that chapter is and should be closed now, and we’re not entering into some bizarre cheesy swinger style fantasy you’re conjuring so halt it bernard.
we both feel that open relationships are fruitless and it’s just a matter of time til one party moves on to a new conquest for good. also hello, hurt feelings!
July 10th, 2009 at 7:24 pm
one more thing look at it this way: if i’m not allowed to strip (and i’m not) then fil is not allowed to go look at strippers. THAT would be hypocritical. good nite.
July 10th, 2009 at 7:45 pm
i was going to say, bernard doesnt sound like a girls name, i thought it was common knowledge and universally agreed upon that we dont really know shit about women?
July 10th, 2009 at 9:46 pm
Bernard’s idea of what women’s natural instincts make me laugh. It’s to the point where I can’t even get annoyed by his comments.
I completely agree with you Raymi.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:11 pm
I have a friend who danced nude at an exclusive club in Washington DC for a summer when she was going to George Town University when studying for a psychology degree.
I went a few times and came back with an appreciation for nude dancers and a pitiful view of the nature of man.
She had names for all of the men. By the way her stage name was Nikki Smith and guys actually thought it was her real name.
The Beast: The guy who thinks he can get laid. He drinks way too many drinks yet only gives a dollar for each dance. Usually goes home in a taxi.
The Yuppie: Thinks one dollar tips are the greatest thing, despite the fact that men around him are giving five and tens, and falls in love with at least one of the dancers.
The Savior or Preacher: The guy who wants to save the dancers from the pitts of mythological hell. Usually pisses off a dancer and gets escorted out.
The old man: Wants to remember what a nude woman looks like. Tends to tip well.
The guy on a bachelor party: The most hated of the types. Grouping and fondling the dancers hoping their repulsive behavior will get them laid. They usually were thrown out.
Horny married guy: Not getting laid at home so he wants to look at what he is missing. Usually a liar.
Power guy: Thinks a suit and high paying job will impress the dancers. They usually stink of ego.
She even came up with a name for me the Gentleman: Appreciates the dancers and gives each one a five dollar tip. Chats freely and never asks the question, “Why are you a stripper?” Talks about what they are doing in real life and never patronizes.
She had names for her fellow dancers too but this comment is way too long. Never been to a female dance club since.
July 10th, 2009 at 10:43 pm
Strip clubs appeal to the newlywed or nearly dead.
I wouldn’t trust ANY man who regularly frequents those places and in circles of strong men, the strip club guys are looked upon as men with weak scene control.
July 10th, 2009 at 11:14 pm
I SO fucking agree with EVERYTHING you said. When I got married, my guy’s friends asked if I would mind if they took him to a strip club and I said YES I fucking mind. Not happening. He’d flip his lid if I went.
Re: the stripper thing. A bunch of us (girls & guys) were sitting around the other day & it came up about one thing most girls had a fantasy of doing at some point & I said stripping. I never actually considered it as a career choice but it appealed to me when I was a young teenager. A few of the women were all, oh no I didn’t. Liars!
July 10th, 2009 at 11:22 pm
I also have to say that lots of strippers are under-age, drug-users, and/or single moms trying to make some extra cash. Not a good situation.
My friend was at a stag last week and the fucking 70 year old father of the groom got naked & was grinding up against a girl. Completely depraved & disgusting.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:30 am
Girl or guy strip clubs, there are usually monster emotions in abundance from the gf or bf about the one who goes, right? I went to Montreal with a guy I was seeing and we agreed we would not go to the strip clubs because we only had so much money. Oh how he whined about that, how I deprived him. When we got back to Ontario, every time we argued, he brought up “Montreal” - in his crude effort to make me look like a bitch or prude in his mind’s eye. Well for fuck’s sake, IF we had gone to the stripper bars, we would have spent $200 easily. I made sure we didn’t, and we had a nice vacation, within our budget, Jesus Christ. Where is he now, Raymi? Fuck’d if I know - or care. Point being, going to the stripper bars is a waste of money like whoa.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:57 am
This is perfectly written. I have had such a hard time trying to explain to guys in the past wtf is wrong with this strip club tradition. Now I think I’ll just send them a link to this page and be done with it.
July 11th, 2009 at 1:58 am
Good post. I haven’t been to your site for a few years and now I find this. You articulated all the problems I had with The Hangover. I thought it was really funny but as soon as they showed that the Ed Helms character was saddled with a bitch girlfriend, you fucking KNEW he was gonna get married to a stripper in Vegas. So as to blow his dominant paradigm wide open, muthafucka. The movie trafficked in stereotypes.
And also, the idea that the stag party is like a ticket to do whatever you want, is bogus. Bogus, I say. Bogus. I’ve never been to a bachelorette party but they’ve sounded pretty lame and uncomfortable for all involved. If your man feels he has license to go out for a weekend and cheat on you for a weekend, then yeah, by all means, somehow arrange to be the stripper giving him a lap dance, and watch his expression as his wayward eyes focus on your face.
The sexual politics of the movie are retarded and adolescent, but it was still funny.
Anyway, good post, I could write more but I’m wasted. May your wings be full of pristine bristles.
July 11th, 2009 at 2:57 am
i just wanted to say that male strippers are gross. always. they are almost always way twinky and it’s like they got lost and ended up in the wrong room doing this very male gay kind of aesthetic - often complete with uniforms. village peopley uniform silliness, not hot dude in some kind of obscene power trip that some old gals uncomfortable about being dominant themselves feel more comfortable getting into, or something. yes, i am having difficulty forming sentences. try to figure it out on your own, i’m going to bed. i dunno… male strippers, pornstars, ripped guys who love the summer because they get to go shirtless, and then the fucking gross greaseballs on the street or “hotties” (barf) goodlooking and not greasy but stil all full of sexual tension bravado ickyness have always grossed me the hell out and yes i am part gay but i am definitely still somewhat part straight and i have never understood what the fuck is going on with male strippers. SO not the same as hot girly strippers at stag parties. thank you for allowing me to announce this to the world. i’m putting an end to this comment. nightynight.
July 11th, 2009 at 9:24 am
“Storming the door and causing scenes” isn’t the reason women aren’t allowed to go to strip clubs unattended. (Not the only reason, anyway.) It’s to keep single women from hanging out and taking the attention (i.e. money) away from the dancers. There are all kinds of rules regarding the customer/client relationship that don’t apply to a woman customer.
I haven’t known many strippers who were “on the prowl for men to ’save’ them from their world” — at least not anymore than any random girl in a bar might be. (Not that strippers don’t play that card in order to make money by crying about bills, accidents, operations, and a million other things they need help with.) Like Puff Daddy says, It’s all about the Benjamins.
Anyway, concerning bachelor/bachelorette parties, any bachelor party I’ve ever been to has been way tamer than the bachelorette parties I’ve heard about and/or seen photographic evidence of. And I mean WAY tamer. Of course the wildest of those bachelorette parties was for a stripper who was marrying one of her clients, so what do I know?
In any case, all that aside, do people even go to strip clubs anymore?
July 11th, 2009 at 9:39 am
Very interesting stuff… I have been single my whole life and been going to stripe joints since a teen. Why? I went to several ballet boarding schools, and a lot of us did it to pay our way through school/ make money when the company was off for the summer. I have a lot of respect for SOME strippers, as some of them are incredible dancers, and friends. Would I be happy as punch if my man got a lap dance? No. Would I still go to a club with some friends to support a friend? Hell ya. Stripping, when done well, is an art.
July 11th, 2009 at 10:44 am
Getting all these emails reminded me of something. My boyfriend said he was in no way jealous of me going to a male strip club b/c he imagined the strippers would either be gay or super fake-tan oily buff dudes in thongs–stuff I’m not attracted to.
I went a couple times (friends’ Bachelorette parties) and he wasn’t phased until he saw a photo that had about 5 dudes in it and then realized a couple of them were actually hot. He didn’t flip out but I could tell there was jealousy because suddenly he had a hundred questions about the experience.
July 11th, 2009 at 11:38 am
agree w. fil when he says that the topic and people in general are too subjective to pigeonhole. BUT, being the keen observer of humanity i’ve noticed you to be, you’ve got at least 85% of humanity pegged in this post. so. hm. I guess I’ll back off this one now.
Your hair has also been looking fantastix lately.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:18 pm
ole blue i want to hear the names she had for the other dancers!
July 11th, 2009 at 12:20 pm
bernard had more to say but i deleted it - TMI and braggarting about women flirting with him has absolutely nothing to do with this post sorry guy.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:30 pm
What frustrates me most is the whole “last night of freedom” crap. Umm, excuse me but we’ve been in a monogamous relationship for x amount of time, and going to the strippers was never ok then, why would it be ok the night before getting married?! Ridiculous.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:46 pm
Your responses to Bernard were dead on. Holy fucking ignorance.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:51 pm
and apparently i am insecure because i do not enjoy fil being flirted with in front of me which happens constantly. try, desensitized.
July 11th, 2009 at 12:58 pm
That doesn’t make you insecure… it makes the other girl a cuntface. Rude much?
July 11th, 2009 at 1:06 pm
so, i have a friend who is about to get married and all thru their relationship, she has gone with him and his buddies to strip clubs. both of them insist that it is great entertainment and fun blah blah blah….. the guy is a dirty weasel and just doesn’t want to get in shit from my friend for staring at someone else’s bare titties. total gross!
i tried that whole ‘lets go to the peelers’ stage i think all of thrice in my early 20’s and it was kinda fun to see the costumes and the dancing, but what really turned me off was when the strippers would encourage men (and me those few times) to chuck filthy disgusting twonies in their pussies. that’s like licking the handle bars on buses/subways or drinking from a puddle of goober-spits on the sidewalk.
July 11th, 2009 at 1:36 pm
“the guy is a dirty weasel and just doesn’t want to get in shit from my friend for staring at someone else’s bare titties.”
the guy getting married is a dirty weasel or a friend who will be at the bachelor party is?
July 11th, 2009 at 1:41 pm
Solution: everybody goes out together & sees a burlesque show. Much less filthy, much more fun. Wow, that’s a lot of comments.
July 11th, 2009 at 1:43 pm
solution: i get to be dita von teese.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:40 am
Raymi, I agree with you 87 percent.
July 12th, 2009 at 7:29 pm
I agree with many things - especially the simple jealousy no matter what.
BUT
I just watched the hangover again, after reading this post. He lies about Vegas to her, and the confrontation is why he went to Vegas (not why he went to a stripclub). The movie never shows strippers until the credits - so I don’t think it was that big of a deal (although she mentions the grossness of the places in the beginning). Moreover, she WAS a rotten human being overall. I think the movie makes you hate her because she was so deeply rotten - not because she didn’t want him to go to Vegas. She banged other dudes, beat him, made him call all the time, checked his bank statements, etc. SHE sounded insecure to me.
I don’t know why it was important for me to clarify that, but I think the movie itself (and even Old School, by the same guy) ends up just telling the “outward” expression of men while validating their real-life important matters - their friends, their wives, their life. Even Bradly Cooper’s character truly cares about his wife, like Vince Vaughn’s in Old School.
And the only time I have ever enjoyed strip clubs with a guy was when I had no real interest in the guy, but we were drunk, partying, and I would probably just be with him for a week or three. It ALWAYS hurts when it is someone you care about…
July 12th, 2009 at 8:38 pm
Raymi, I worked in a strip club as a waitress and not all guys who go there for stag parties or a night out really want to be there. Part of my job discription was to flirt with dudes when serving them drinks (ie tips!) but not all guys were interested in even being there, you can see it quite obviously. The guys that are REALLY sad are the ones who come with “Me myself and I” (ie alone) and are just so desperate for attention. I wouldn’t mind if my bf went to a strip club because he wouldn’t really enjoy it… aka fake tits, gross spray tans turns him off, plus he is loyal. For fuck sakes Phil is MARRYING you, why would you be jealous?
Oh and I did strip one time, in a private room, made a bunch of money and didn’t feel an ounce of sadness. The guy who was there was so drunk he probably didn’t even remember it.
July 12th, 2009 at 10:50 pm
burlesque is so ghey
July 13th, 2009 at 10:54 am
“For fuck sakes Phil is MARRYING you, why would you be jealous?”
elizabeth i do not appreciate the tone of this statement at all and i feel you have overlooked many of my points. marriage doesn’t mean you stop caring what the other one does (for many it does though and that’s shitty) and if i didn’t care about the person, why would i marry them and let them go to a strip club? depressing.
discussion closed
July 13th, 2009 at 11:05 am
i agree with Bernard that women can often find themselves being turned on by the very thing that upsets them.
from my personal experience, that initial anger, when not properly dealt with, transcends all of that bundled up energy into different parts of your core, one of them being sexual. what you are angry about can turn you on, but thats just because all of that energy stimulated you and awakened your senses. this is the same thing as make up/break up sex or someone watching violent pornography.
there are various ways to tap into your hormonal surge but that doesn’t make all of them healthy. imagine being reliant on being angry with your man to turn you on, i cant imagine how grossly unstable that relationship would be.
i think if you, raymi, stripped for a room full of men, to compensate for phil deciding to go to a strip club. then you would still spend months being cold and upset over what he did. because you have stated your opinions and feelings about it to such an extent, that had he still decided to go, you would feel betrayed and angry that he even brought you to the point of having to compensate for what he did.
i am really glad that you mentioned the regulations of women needing to be escorted by men into strip clubs, because i was told it was because the club was trying to keep women safe from the type of men that go in there, and i am glad that i now know the real justification behind it. i want to barf.
July 13th, 2009 at 11:17 am
here is an email i received from keith HE got my point. read it.
“like one time i let a girlfriend of mine blow an ex bf right in front of me, i let that same chick do it to two different guys on separate occasions actually, and i could see in both the guy’s stupid faces how lucky they felt and happy and were completely elated WOW hit the fucking lottery here this must mean something. yes it does mean something and that being i’m beyond over you and this is how i’m letting you down easy with a beej from my whore friend. pretty generous if you ask me. (it’s a sneaky dirty trick you can bring up later on when the guy is sobbing and saying nasty desperate things you just passive aggressively remind him that he got blown by your friend in front of you so who’s the one who cares about whom now?)”
absolute gold. i’m still at work… shared it with the rest of the weekend work force… positive reviews.
i am developing a theory:
related to men vs. women
i think that women are moreso the human beings…
and that men are more hold-over animal.
i realize that a lot of people already hold similar beliefs
but there are all sorts of ramifications…
to relate to what you were saying in that stripper/bachelor party rant:
your logic is pretty solid, as far as vengeance goes. And I think that your attitude, or your reaction, …in terms of understanding that the real stab-for-stab after the stripper party would be acting like a slut on a night out… shows that you can understand things without a sort of blind pride. the reaction you came up with is such a calculatory filth. I mean its beautiful… in a twisted and ‘on the money’ way…. but it sort of hurts the inner-dude to consider the way in which going out to a strip club seems in light of how infuriating the idea of your girlfriend/fiance rubbing up on other dudes would be… to go one step further with the decimation of the standard… imagine that you found out what strip club your man’s bachelor party was going to be at… and that subsequently you managed to get yourself on the performance list at that strip club on that night…
it would pretty thoroughly highlight the thoughtlessness of occasions such as those.
that puts your reaction in a nice smooth justice category. which is quite different from the way that males operate.
i think that males are always subject to the cock/rage/pride situation whenever challenges, obstacles, decisions present themselves. women seem to go into a mode of calculation that involves more stuff… and although the reasoning may not always be linear… women seem to get at the heart of what’s going on with human beings in a way that men seldom do. in my opinion that all stems from the fact that dudes are still hardwired to shred whatever’s in their path until they can plant their seed in something comfortably. obviously there are exceptions to these hypothetical rules.
maybe i’m off on this… but in my experience… women have always done better in social situations (excluding immature crush-phase ‘trying to get noticed’ dynamics, etc.) … and considering that our species is a complete convoluted social vomit… women may have, and deserve, the upper hand in manipulation, supplication, being human, because they see social things in more detail.
right… so again, i’m not sure. need to hash the theory out… have to make sure i’m not just hypnotized by tits.
oh… and considering whether its cooler to be ‘human being’ or ‘mostly mindless animal’… enters a completely different conversation. i think girls might get the shaft on that one too.
but you know what… a lot of people from both sides of this breakdown will be searching for their faces later this evening… so i guess we can find common ground in misery, horniness, and the enjoyment of getting fucked up.
…drink a beer.
-America
July 13th, 2009 at 5:18 pm
my friend’s fiance is the dirty weasel. he also enjoys talking at my tits whenever she exits the room.
July 15th, 2009 at 9:41 pm
I LOVE THE RIPPERS!!!!!!
July 18th, 2009 at 1:40 am
Edit on the comment. So here is what my friend came up with for her fellow Dancers.
Momma: She has been dancing for years and feels she should guide everyone and nurture them. Not on drugs, maybe drinks too much, is proud of her body and her profession and tries to make all of the dancers proud of their professions. The one who is called when all of the other dancers are in trouble.
The bitch: Older like the Momma but resents the younger dancers and attempts to make their lives miserable. She is hated by the Momma.
The whore: She wants to make as much money as she can even if it means having sex with the customers.
Druggie: Needs to get her fix so that she can get high. Momma is usually getting her out of some kind of trouble.
The teaser: Loves getting men aroused. She plays the men in the club really well and you would never know that she is a dancer outside of the club.
The Lesbian: She prefers women but she dances for men. She likes getting them horny but would never have sex with them. Two of the dancers were lesbians and a couple.
The Naïve baby: She was into dancing because she could make money. The spot was a safe place to dance nude and not have to give lap dances or ever be touched. She did not know what she wanted in life. She was usually from a small town or somewhere in West Virginia. Several naïve babies came through that summer and only one stayed. She is now a Momma.
The abused one: She claimed she danced because she was sexually abused. She hated what she was doing but kept on dancing.
The professional: She is a dancer and very good at it, perhaps dances in other venues, enjoys her job and loves having fun. She treats the men well and she is treated like a goddess. Momma was a professional but because of her age everyone called her Momma.
The Madonna: She walked into the place and became the favorite dancer. She came out of nowhere, did not tell anyone about her background, did not seem to have a family, she just danced so well that all the men loved her. The Momma gave my friend the name.
The Momma really loved my friend, even knew what she was up too after my friend got drunk with the Momma and told her the secret, and they still keep in touch. Momma is now the manager of the place, no longer dances, but still loves her job and dancing.
When the summer ended, my friend went back to her normal life and we keep in touch. She has never been back to a dance club.
July 18th, 2009 at 10:38 am
sounds right to me